Lost Stars by Claudia Gray, The Episode Between Episodes
This week Elora and Dave search out the meanings of Star Wars Lost Stars by Claudio Gray! How does this certain point of view affect the Original Trilogy? How does the destruction of Alderaan affect the Imperials? What does it take to live up to Imperial loyalty and why? And how do people keep getting so many field promotions on the bridge of Darth Vader's Devastator? And why was it originally called Star Wars: Journey to The Force Awakens: Lost Stars?
Twitter and Instagram @StarWarsMean2U
Star Wars may have the largest and most diverse fanbase in all the galaxy—but every fan has their own certain point of view. So, tune your comlinks and join Star Wars enthusiasts, Dave (an OT kid) and Elora (a PT kid), every week for an in-depth conversation with a different devotee from all walks of life across the Star Wars fandom universe. Plus, it’s just FUN to talk about Star Wars. To bring balance to the fanbase, each episode we’ll delve into our guests’ personal Star Wars fandom story, and from that point of view, we’ll celebrate the power of the Force. Strap in, ignite your passion for the galaxy far, far away, and find out: What Does Stars Wars Mean To You?
Music composed & performed by Gregory Bromfield
Copyright 2025 David H.
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Transcript
Hello there. This is the Laura, and
Speaker:I'm the prequel trilogy kid.
Speaker:And this is Dave, and I'm an
Speaker:original trilogy kid.
Speaker:And you're listening to What Two
Speaker:Star Wars mean to you.
Speaker:The podcast where we talk to all
Speaker:kinds of fans of the franchise, from
Speaker:industry insiders to indie artists,
Speaker:from obsessive mythologies to mega
Speaker:collectors, all for one goal
Speaker:to take the heart out of the debate
Speaker:by focusing on one fan
Speaker:at a time to find out what does
Speaker:Star Wars mean to you?
Speaker:Plus, it's just fun to chat Star
Speaker:Wars.
Speaker:We think.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:How many variations of that do you
Speaker:think I can come up with?
Speaker:Because I'm always you always you
Speaker:always do the intro spiel, and then
Speaker:I'm always like, Yeah.
Speaker:Or, you know, or like,
Speaker:you know, we think so.
Speaker:Or, heck, yes.
Speaker:Yeah, maybe.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I think I challenge
Speaker:the to change it up each
Speaker:time and.
Speaker:Then do an end of year real.
Speaker:Yes. And then we'll do an end of
Speaker:year real but we will do that for
Speaker:season three which by the way I,
Speaker:I do want to like just say
Speaker:we're coming up on the end of season
Speaker:two for 2024.
Speaker:We'll have a couple more episodes
Speaker:and then we're going to take a
Speaker:little bit of a hiatus for the
Speaker:holidays into January.
Speaker:Good, Right, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:And we'll be back in 2025
Speaker:with all new interviews.
Speaker:I actually can't believe we're
Speaker:already talking about 2025
Speaker:because I feel like it was just
Speaker:yesterday we were meeting
Speaker:for the first time about this
Speaker:podcast. It was about this time last
Speaker:year, so I don't really know what's
Speaker:happening, but wow.
Speaker:That's insane.
Speaker:I, I, I, I
Speaker:don't want to think too hard on it,
Speaker:but I also love that.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Okay. Well, so wait.
Speaker:So rate and subscribe the show
Speaker:if you're enjoying our
Speaker:you know let's just endless rambles
Speaker:especially on our many sounds.
Speaker:And yes.
Speaker:And give us a like and follow
Speaker:on social you can find us at
Speaker:all of the places at Star Wars
Speaker:mean to you which is Star Wars
Speaker:nine the number two and the letter.
Speaker:You.
Speaker:Awesome And next week we're talking
Speaker:to Chelsea Zoo Caskey, who's the
Speaker:author of the Space Wizards
Speaker:Book Club newsletter,
Speaker:is author of a newsletter, The Right
Speaker:Way to Phrase It.
Speaker:I. So yeah.
Speaker:Curious Grubs.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yes. And to get ready for that, we
Speaker:thought we would, you know, read
Speaker:a book.
Speaker:And it.
Speaker:Seems like a good idea.
Speaker:So we chose a book that a lot
Speaker:of fans of the Star Wars books
Speaker:recommend, and that's Journey to
Speaker:Star Wars. The Force Awakens, Lost
Speaker:Stars by Claudia Gray
Speaker:now.
Speaker:And like I said, it's a book I
Speaker:feel like is in a lot of the top
Speaker:five lists of like heavy duty
Speaker:Star Wars book fans.
Speaker:Now this came out in September 2015,
Speaker:three months before the premiere of
Speaker:The Force Awakens.
Speaker:It was a slight teaser or prelude
Speaker:or riding the coattails
Speaker:of the trailer for Force Awakens.
Speaker:And to say more on that, maybe we
Speaker:should also say that there are going
Speaker:to be spoilers.
Speaker:We're getting a lot of spoilers
Speaker:tonight. It's nothing but spoilers,
Speaker:so if you haven't read it, go read
Speaker:it and come back and then listen.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:I have opinions on
Speaker:when and how this book was released,
Speaker:but we could get to that later.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Because it becomes it.
Speaker:Makes no sense.
Speaker:So here's a bit of a summary
Speaker:for Lost Stars.
Speaker:Lost Stars by Claudia Gray is a Star
Speaker:Wars novel that follows the lives
Speaker:of two childhood friends, Thayne
Speaker:Corral and Sienna Rhee,
Speaker:who grew up on the Outer Rim planet
Speaker:of.
Speaker:You know what? I, I listened
Speaker:briefly to the audio thing to
Speaker:get the pronunciation of its
Speaker:pronounced.
Speaker:It was really weird.
Speaker:It was like.
Speaker:Like jello sin, right?
Speaker:Yeah. It was literally sound like
Speaker:jello. Yeah.
Speaker:Yes. Yeah. Jello said and
Speaker:I thought it was I pronounced
Speaker:that the whole time as Jean-Luc.
Speaker:And so did I.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Okay, good.
Speaker:But it was like Jello con or
Speaker:something like that. Yeah.
Speaker:So Thane and Sienna
Speaker:joined the Imperial Academy as
Speaker:aspiring to become pilots,
Speaker:but their paths diverge as Thane
Speaker:becomes disillusioned with the
Speaker:empire's cruelty and defects to
Speaker:the rebel alliance, while Sienna
Speaker:remains loyal to the empire.
Speaker:Now the relationship is tested as
Speaker:they find themselves in opposite
Speaker:sides of the Galactic Civil War,
Speaker:leading to intense emotional and
Speaker:ideological conflicts.
Speaker:The story spans key events from a
Speaker:new hope through Return of the Jedi,
Speaker:offering a unique perspective on
Speaker:major battles like the destruction
Speaker:of the Death Star.
Speaker:Ultimately, the novel explores
Speaker:themes of loyalty, love in the moral
Speaker:complexities of war within
Speaker:the Star Wars universe.
Speaker:Journey to Star Wars, The Force
Speaker:Awakens.
Speaker:Lost Stars.
Speaker:I Just prefer to call it Lost Stars.
Speaker:The copy of the book.
Speaker:I Have only says Lost Stars.
Speaker:And yes, I
Speaker:like that.
Speaker:Yeah, I think they probably
Speaker:repackaged it.
Speaker:They should up.
Speaker:It has nothing to do with The Force
Speaker:Awakens. It's not a Journey to The
Speaker:First Awakens.
Speaker:It is so far in the past.
Speaker:I don't know how you could possibly
Speaker:call it Journey to the Force Awakens
Speaker:any more than you would a new hope.
Speaker:And you wouldn't?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Well, to be honest, when I
Speaker:when it first came out, I remember
Speaker:very clearly when it first came out
Speaker:and my initial thought
Speaker:was kind of Romeo
Speaker:and Juliet romance.
Speaker:The Montagues and the Capulet love
Speaker:story all over again.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And that it would
Speaker:it wasn't about the major characters
Speaker:of Star Wars, but took place during
Speaker:that time line.
Speaker:And so I really did not
Speaker:feel like for me.
Speaker:No.
Speaker:But now that I've read it,
Speaker:what lo these near ten
Speaker:years later, just overall,
Speaker:I really enjoyed this book.
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:Really sucked me in
Speaker:and totally made
Speaker:me a fan of Claudia Gray.
Speaker:Yeah. For anyone listening, this is.
Speaker:This is definitely a love of
Speaker:Lost Stars book review and more
Speaker:than anything else.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I think we should start with how
Speaker:it's told.
Speaker:I love the his and hers
Speaker:point of view and
Speaker:hers being the like,
Speaker:you know, imperial side of things.
Speaker:She. She does not defect,
Speaker:but she's from this, like, poorer
Speaker:family, which I also think plays a
Speaker:huge role in her character.
Speaker:And then there's sorry.
Speaker:And hers is Sienna
Speaker:and then Thane, who
Speaker:is he defects and
Speaker:becomes part of the rebel alliance.
Speaker:He becomes one of their kind of key
Speaker:pilots.
Speaker:Honestly, it's kind of alluded to
Speaker:that he's second only to Luke.
Speaker:Like he's he's pretty he survives
Speaker:a lot more than some of his comrades
Speaker:do at times.
Speaker:Yeah, He's like the off screen
Speaker:legend.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah. Like, he's very good.
Speaker:But he comes from a very, like,
Speaker:noble family.
Speaker:And I thought it was interesting
Speaker:that the book opens with him
Speaker:and his mother
Speaker:going on about how he is as old
Speaker:as the Empire and like the pride
Speaker:in that.
Speaker:It was interesting.
Speaker:Yeah, because he was like born on
Speaker:the same day that the Empire was.
Speaker:Like the.
Speaker:Conceived, but, like, very close.
Speaker:Yeah. That, like, he was like, it
Speaker:was the same day.
Speaker:I think it was the day that
Speaker:democracy fell, basically.
Speaker:But yeah, right.
Speaker:But yeah, they don't
Speaker:see it that way.
Speaker:But so they have this like bond and
Speaker:they fall in love as kids
Speaker:over their shared love of flying and
Speaker:their dreams of being star fighter
Speaker:pilots. They're both like very into
Speaker:like, they can recognize the ships
Speaker:by their sounds separately.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:They meet at some sort of
Speaker:rally.
Speaker:And for the emperor.
Speaker:Was it was.
Speaker:Yeah, it was like Empire Day.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:On the day that their planet
Speaker:became part of the Empire.
Speaker:Right. And they're very swayed by
Speaker:this. And so the propaganda
Speaker:really worked on the kids.
Speaker:Yes. Yes, they did.
Speaker:Everyone was like, I want to wear
Speaker:shiny boots and
Speaker:work for the emperor.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And so they kind of have this, like,
Speaker:shared dream of joining the Imperial
Speaker:Academy. And the first good chunk of
Speaker:the book kind of builds up
Speaker:their bond as they grow
Speaker:to be old enough to join the
Speaker:academy. And like, it kind
Speaker:of is more about like despite their
Speaker:social classes differing so
Speaker:greatly, like they both
Speaker:share so much in terms
Speaker:of like their bigger dreams and
Speaker:goals and how that relates to flying
Speaker:specifically.
Speaker:Yeah. Well.
Speaker:You were talking about how it's told
Speaker:in the sense of from
Speaker:each of their certain points of
Speaker:view, which I,
Speaker:I really love
Speaker:how they made
Speaker:it because it goes back and forth in
Speaker:chapters like
Speaker:a chapters thing, a Chapter C and
Speaker:a chapter saying this.
Speaker:Chapter C.
Speaker:And those chapters kind of
Speaker:echo each other in the sense
Speaker:of, as Thane
Speaker:is learning, that the rebellion is
Speaker:kind of a voluntarily volunteer
Speaker:army, that
Speaker:the rebel leadership
Speaker:recognizes and appreciates
Speaker:and values people, whereas
Speaker:on the opposite side, sienna's
Speaker:kind of experiencing that's the same
Speaker:thing on the exact same track at the
Speaker:same moment where
Speaker:the empire is
Speaker:slowly revealing itself to
Speaker:just be
Speaker:insidious. Crazy?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Insidious?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Yeah. I mean, just like.
Speaker:Well, I was going to say on that
Speaker:point, like Steam begins questioning
Speaker:the empire as early as like
Speaker:chapter like six or something.
Speaker:Like, it's early in the book.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:When he starts to feel really
Speaker:disillusioned because he's he's
Speaker:early in it, they think they're
Speaker:out of the academy and they're now
Speaker:in like the field, as it were.
Speaker:And he gets really disillusioned
Speaker:with, like the brutal torture and
Speaker:discipline of the body that he
Speaker:witnesses.
Speaker:And I wondered
Speaker:how much of
Speaker:I don't know if this is anything but
Speaker:like Spain's moral
Speaker:compass and.
Speaker:His quickness
Speaker:to start questioning his place
Speaker:in this world that he
Speaker:dreamed about and cemented
Speaker:himself into and
Speaker:his ability to to
Speaker:eventually run from that.
Speaker:And he goes into hiding before he
Speaker:finds Rebel Alliance and and
Speaker:everything. But like, how much of
Speaker:that is related to like
Speaker:the fact that maybe he's a
Speaker:little bit more comfortable because
Speaker:he had a bit more of a wealthier
Speaker:upbringing.
Speaker:He's never really like
Speaker:he's never really needed to
Speaker:fit in. He always has.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Yes. Yes.
Speaker:Whereas Sienna remains
Speaker:loyal, despite its flaws and
Speaker:despite her own apprehensions,
Speaker:because she's not completely morally
Speaker:corrupt.
Speaker:But she's really determined to
Speaker:uphold her family's values of
Speaker:loyalty and honor.
Speaker:And like, essentially, this is the
Speaker:way for anyone to.
Speaker:It's like a funny joke,
Speaker:but like, it's that sense of
Speaker:belonging, I think that she has
Speaker:more than anything.
Speaker:And I wondered if that was
Speaker:like, I wonder if that was an
Speaker:intentional choice on on
Speaker:Claudia Grace part with them having
Speaker:come from very different classes
Speaker:in their background.
Speaker:I would definitely say so.
Speaker:And on top of that as
Speaker:well is that Sienna
Speaker:had a very good relationship with
Speaker:her parents where Thane
Speaker:did not have a good relationship
Speaker:with his parents at all and was
Speaker:kind of rebellious
Speaker:against these authority
Speaker:figures in his life.
Speaker:That's true. That was already kind
Speaker:of laying the groundwork.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Yes, exactly.
Speaker:And I also I
Speaker:loved how
Speaker:Claudia Gray works in
Speaker:kind of these quiet motivations
Speaker:for them throughout the story.
Speaker:Like she sets
Speaker:their character and even
Speaker:though their characters grow and
Speaker:change, there's that core part
Speaker:of them that stays
Speaker:who they are for like sienna's,
Speaker:like maddening
Speaker:adherence to loyalty
Speaker:is, is you
Speaker:could get really frustrated.
Speaker:I think in a way Thane does get
Speaker:really frustrated with her about it,
Speaker:but at the same time, you're
Speaker:able to see exactly
Speaker:why Sienna
Speaker:chooses to stay with the Empire.
Speaker:Yeah, she does a really good job of
Speaker:painting the
Speaker:the why without her
Speaker:losing humanity.
Speaker:Because, yeah, there were times
Speaker:where I hated her.
Speaker:There were times where I just wanted
Speaker:to jostle her and be like.
Speaker:Wake up.
Speaker:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker:But I never that never lingered
Speaker:for long because there was always
Speaker:some other motivation where you
Speaker:could understand this, like the
Speaker:human rationale or
Speaker:need to fit in or whatever it
Speaker:was. Yeah.
Speaker:Or just the simple like she
Speaker:believed in her government, thought
Speaker:her government was doing right.
Speaker:She did. Yeah.
Speaker:And it's also that that kind of
Speaker:journey of look,
Speaker:it's like Thane is the kind
Speaker:of character or person you wish you
Speaker:could be and sienna's
Speaker:the type of person that
Speaker:you understand you
Speaker:could be in the sense
Speaker:that her belief takes
Speaker:her so deep into her
Speaker:career and into the empire
Speaker:that she doesn't see
Speaker:all the wrong happening around her.
Speaker:And I don't think she's
Speaker:deluded.
Speaker:I think she's more
Speaker:disillusioned or the opposite of
Speaker:disillusioned.
Speaker:She's illusion
Speaker:that you wouldn't say that, right?
Speaker:Did we just think of a new word?
Speaker:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker:Anyway, she is very
Speaker:much,
Speaker:I guess what it is.
Speaker:You understand her rationalization,
Speaker:how she comes to it.
Speaker:So when she's doing these things,
Speaker:you're like, I see what you're
Speaker:doing. I understand you.
Speaker:I see you, Sienna.
Speaker:She's a soldier, and he never was.
Speaker:Yes, that's true.
Speaker:Yeah, that's.
Speaker:Very I mean, I think that there's
Speaker:probably a lot of people
Speaker:in the world and in history who
Speaker:did things they didn't think capable
Speaker:or rationalize things in times of
Speaker:war. And I think that she
Speaker:put a really she
Speaker:wrote a really beautiful she being
Speaker:Claudia Gray wrote a very beautiful
Speaker:character as a
Speaker:way to like represent that.
Speaker:A very sympathetic way of
Speaker:representing that. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker:Yeah. Sorry to jump on you.
Speaker:I know you're right to jump away.
Speaker:I jump on you all the time.
Speaker:Someone's listening to this being
Speaker:like Dave. A Laura interrupts you
Speaker:daily.
Speaker:I was.
Speaker:I was editing, I was editing
Speaker:were episodes while the miniseries,
Speaker:and I was like, my God, I have to
Speaker:shut my face.
Speaker:No, because I'm always
Speaker:interrupting.
Speaker:That's so funny.
Speaker:How about Anyway, it's really funny
Speaker:because I feel that way all the
Speaker:time. I'm like, Did I.
Speaker:Interrupt Dave.
Speaker:Too much tonight?
Speaker:So how does
Speaker:this fit into the larger Star Wars
Speaker:myth? Let's dive in there.
Speaker:Well.
Speaker:I think I think there's a couple,
Speaker:like, thematics that fits in really
Speaker:well, which is family trauma.
Speaker:Yeah, because.
Speaker:Regardless of its
Speaker:I don't know if you call it good
Speaker:trauma, but the
Speaker:kind of things that
Speaker:he and his family gave her, which
Speaker:was like loyalty.
Speaker:Stand by your friends.
Speaker:Stand up for people,
Speaker:that kind of thing.
Speaker:I think her upbringing
Speaker:represents that kind of family,
Speaker:generational, carrying
Speaker:on. And then, of course,
Speaker:fame is family
Speaker:trauma because he's abused.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:A lot of anger is
Speaker:thrust upon him.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well, and then there's I fully
Speaker:agree. And then there's like the
Speaker:bigger themes, too.
Speaker:I think that the like what's
Speaker:happening in the world of
Speaker:Star Wars at this time
Speaker:is very interesting.
Speaker:I the biggest impact being Alderaan,
Speaker:I think for both of them, Yes.
Speaker:Yes. Yes.
Speaker:That is that is a huge, like
Speaker:inciting incident.
Speaker:Yeah. The rest of it.
Speaker:And it comes up all the time.
Speaker:And what I liked about it was that
Speaker:it also painted the mood
Speaker:of, like others in the
Speaker:Imperial Army when
Speaker:that happens.
Speaker:Like, yeah.
Speaker:There's side characters whose whole
Speaker:families perish in that event
Speaker:and they're not allowed to react on
Speaker:the bridge like.
Speaker:Yeah. And that just was like,
Speaker:I never thought of that when I.
Speaker:Watched it, you.
Speaker:Know? It really it
Speaker:really made the event
Speaker:of Alderaan much bigger,
Speaker:much like echoing much
Speaker:further into the future.
Speaker:Like, as soon as you brought it up,
Speaker:I was like, You know what?
Speaker:Thane in Sienna cared more
Speaker:about what happened on Alderaan.
Speaker:Then we see Princess Leia.
Speaker:Yeah. No, in the in the.
Speaker:Films, Yeah.
Speaker:They dive into their emotional,
Speaker:like, grappling with that far more
Speaker:than any other Star Wars
Speaker:medium has that I've at
Speaker:least been exposed to.
Speaker:And everyone knows that I haven't
Speaker:read all the comics and everything.
Speaker:But yeah, it's such a significant
Speaker:focus to the story and it totally
Speaker:solidifies themes, feelings, even
Speaker:though it takes them a few more
Speaker:chapters to to fact.
Speaker:But he.
Speaker:He's, he is mind's pretty much made
Speaker:up then.
Speaker:But it causes Diana to go deeper
Speaker:into her denial to rationalize
Speaker:it like.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:And that keeps happening because
Speaker:there's Yavin, there's End or
Speaker:the story ends at Jakku like,
Speaker:and each time
Speaker:she's just digging her foot in that
Speaker:sand deeper and deeper.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Until the very end where it's just
Speaker:literally my core
Speaker:is being loyal, and therefore I'm
Speaker:going to be loyal.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah, because it's like halfway
Speaker:through the book, she starts getting
Speaker:doubts, and then a little further
Speaker:along she starts seeing things in.
Speaker:And like, after the
Speaker:Battle of Ender, she's really like,
Speaker:What the hell am I doing?
Speaker:Yeah. And it ends with her
Speaker:arrest by the rebellion.
Speaker:And what I think is so fascinating
Speaker:is the like, chapter two leading up
Speaker:to that. Like, she is so
Speaker:embedded in this conviction,
Speaker:she has she actually almost becomes
Speaker:part machine, almost like Darth
Speaker:Vader.
Speaker:Like she gets a massive injury.
Speaker:Yes. She gets a massive injury
Speaker:and literally becomes a cog in the
Speaker:machine. And it was so poetic.
Speaker:Like.
Speaker:I remember I had to close the book
Speaker:for a minute and just sit with that.
Speaker:I was like.
Speaker:Yeah, holy shit.
Speaker:But she says, I don't want to like,
Speaker:I don't want to, like, wrap up the
Speaker:book, but I just like since we're on
Speaker:her character arc, she says
Speaker:something at the very end,
Speaker:which I'm going to flip to right now
Speaker:that I thought was really just
Speaker:poignant for her character.
Speaker:But she said it was the perfect
Speaker:trap. You know, I was so
Speaker:dedicated to honor that I became a
Speaker:war criminal.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker:And she goes on, she says, there's
Speaker:more than one kind of trap.
Speaker:For a second there, I'd convinced
Speaker:myself that we'd fix the whole
Speaker:galaxy. Truth and justice had
Speaker:prevailed. So on and so forth.
Speaker:Even started believing in the force,
Speaker:of all things.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Sorry. That was Steyn's response.
Speaker:He's talking about his trap as well.
Speaker:But yeah, I just.
Speaker:Yes. Yeah.
Speaker:I thought that that was like I
Speaker:became a war criminal.
Speaker:Was so, like, hitting
Speaker:him.
Speaker:It truly is.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But this idea that it's.
Speaker:It's a slow journey
Speaker:to becoming a war criminal, it's
Speaker:not. It's not like a Vader
Speaker:journey where it's like, Rise, Lord
Speaker:Vader. Go kill the children
Speaker:in the temple.
Speaker:No, it's.
Speaker:It's one compromise.
Speaker:And then another and then another.
Speaker:And all of a sudden,
Speaker:you. You do these compromises,
Speaker:adhering to loyalty, and
Speaker:then you're a war criminal.
Speaker:And I think that also is part
Speaker:of the Star Wars like expands the
Speaker:Star Wars universe in the sense that
Speaker:it brings a like a different
Speaker:kind of grittiness, not the kind of
Speaker:grittiness that's in Clone Wars or
Speaker:Bad batch, but
Speaker:I think a grittiness that I
Speaker:can understand, that I relate to
Speaker:in a real world way,
Speaker:especially in it's like leading up
Speaker:to an election. I don't know if.
Speaker:This will be before
Speaker:or after the election.
Speaker:This post before or after the
Speaker:election.
Speaker:But the living in that in
Speaker:this world.
Speaker:Yeah. This story
Speaker:really resonated with me.
Speaker:I think it was exactly I think it
Speaker:was the perfect time to read this
Speaker:book. I.
Speaker:I also read
Speaker:that because of that whole question
Speaker:of like, loyalty and like, what does
Speaker:that even mean in the face of,
Speaker:you know, adversity?
Speaker:But like, I
Speaker:thought, an interesting turning
Speaker:point in her character where
Speaker:I think they I think they did lose
Speaker:her, but she couldn't actually walk
Speaker:away. Was the conviction
Speaker:of her mother to hard labor.
Speaker:Like that surprised her.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah. And the fact that everyone
Speaker:was like, I don't know
Speaker:if anyone explicitly said, but
Speaker:it was kind of implied that
Speaker:Sienna believed that everyone knew
Speaker:she was innocent.
Speaker:Yes. Yes.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Were doing.
Speaker:She did say that she thought the
Speaker:judge knew she was innocent and then
Speaker:her father to just be like, well,
Speaker:this is the way Blake was.
Speaker:Yes. Was hard on her.
Speaker:But she that but she still kept that
Speaker:role model and it
Speaker:I just flipped to I thought there
Speaker:was a really interesting inner
Speaker:monologue of things kind
Speaker:of midway through the book.
Speaker:I think it's like one of the first
Speaker:times they kind of actually like
Speaker:meet up in secret.
Speaker:But he's like reflecting on the fact
Speaker:that he had spent his whole
Speaker:childhood suffering under the
Speaker:cruelty of a hypocrite, and he
Speaker:wasn't going to do it again.
Speaker:And even if that person's
Speaker:the emperor, but for her, loyalty
Speaker:once given is absolute and how the
Speaker:empire didn't deserve her, and yet
Speaker:it had her in her grasp forever.
Speaker:Or sorry, it's grasped forever.
Speaker:I just I that was one of the times.
Speaker:I just wanted to shake her.
Speaker:Just like.
Speaker:Yeah. Of it.
Speaker:But earlier
Speaker:you brought up the idea of Thane
Speaker:in the force in Thane throughout the
Speaker:book does not believe in the force.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Yet he's a he's a rebel.
Speaker:And then Sienna, throughout
Speaker:the book, Kai believes in the force.
Speaker:Maybe not like explicitly
Speaker:like, I'm going to try and move
Speaker:that remote with my hand.
Speaker:But more of like, there
Speaker:is a greater energy
Speaker:out there that could
Speaker:be guiding us.
Speaker:I thought it was such a great choice
Speaker:by Claudia Gray to make
Speaker:Thane the rebel not
Speaker:believe it. Yes, it make the
Speaker:imperial kind of have
Speaker:this religious belief.
Speaker:I kind of wonder that was.
Speaker:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker:It added to her character for
Speaker:sure.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:I found it interesting, too,
Speaker:because at the end, he kind of
Speaker:realizes she might be right.
Speaker:And yes, one of the notes we
Speaker:had was like, what does this book do
Speaker:for us in terms of like learning
Speaker:more about the Star Wars universe?
Speaker:And this is going to sound so sappy.
Speaker:But I had to say it force and
Speaker:feel like versus fate because
Speaker:there's so many moments where, like
Speaker:you said, like Sienna kind of jokes
Speaker:about it at some points.
Speaker:At other point, she's a little bit
Speaker:more hard hitting about it at the
Speaker:end. Thane happens to board
Speaker:her ship.
Speaker:He's the only one in the galaxy
Speaker:that would ever know what her verbal
Speaker:password was.
Speaker:And then it made me think of
Speaker:of Horn going like.
Speaker:That's not.
Speaker:How the force works to thing.
Speaker:Like that's how he was talking to
Speaker:himself.
Speaker:But it maybe.
Speaker:It was the journey to Star Wars.
Speaker:Star Wars The Force Awakens part of
Speaker:that.
Speaker:There was that was that that one
Speaker:line.
Speaker:But I that.
Speaker:I thought it made me consider
Speaker:like in a deeper way like the forces
Speaker:Luke later describes it and
Speaker:maybe that is the Force awakens
Speaker:connection if we're going to try.
Speaker:And try to find it.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But I would say purely
Speaker:marketing, they just slap the name
Speaker:on there, but they're like, We'll
Speaker:sell this.
Speaker:Yeah, right.
Speaker:Like, Luke knows
Speaker:that the force is not just for the
Speaker:Jedi. Like he kind of later talks
Speaker:about like the levels of strength
Speaker:and, and
Speaker:that not and that everyone's
Speaker:kind of connected through the living
Speaker:force and like whether they can
Speaker:sense it or not.
Speaker:And so this made me
Speaker:wonder, like, was the audience
Speaker:really supposed to walk away with
Speaker:the fact that, like, Thane and
Speaker:Sienna were actually making
Speaker:these connections happen for
Speaker:themselves simply because
Speaker:of how much they loved each other
Speaker:without even knowing that they were
Speaker:doing it.
Speaker:And I thought that was really
Speaker:beautiful. That was very like Romeo
Speaker:and Juliet.
Speaker:Yes, it is.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:And I loved
Speaker:the ending of the book.
Speaker:I really did.
Speaker:And it ends in, like a conversation
Speaker:between Thane and Sienna while she's
Speaker:in prison.
Speaker:And they hint
Speaker:that scene is going to be fine,
Speaker:that they're going to kind of
Speaker:there's going to be a happily ever
Speaker:after in a way, for these two.
Speaker:They hint at it.
Speaker:We don't know if it happened or not.
Speaker:I, I would love to find
Speaker:out. I would love to find out what
Speaker:these characters are doing during
Speaker:the sequel trilogy or
Speaker:during.
Speaker:They're like, let's have a lead
Speaker:up to Skywalker.
Speaker:Like, what
Speaker:is the journey to?
Speaker:Rise of Skywalker.
Speaker:Whatever happened to Thane and
Speaker:Sienna?
Speaker:Yeah, right.
Speaker:Well, that's an interesting I mean,
Speaker:it's an interesting it may be
Speaker:question, you know, like
Speaker:their love story, despite the
Speaker:opposing loyalties they had kind
Speaker:of how they could see beyond that,
Speaker:like the places you might have to go
Speaker:in your mind, like, how can you love
Speaker:someone so deeply who is so
Speaker:ideologically different than you?
Speaker:And I thought what was most fast
Speaker:like what was most lasting for me?
Speaker:Like reflecting on that was like,
Speaker:there's a lesson in that.
Speaker:I think that as we grow,
Speaker:we have to be open to new ways
Speaker:of thinking or to like, recognize
Speaker:that the dreams that we had as kids
Speaker:maybe don't necessarily align
Speaker:with who we are as adults.
Speaker:And I think that's good.
Speaker:I think and not to, like,
Speaker:completely discredit their love
Speaker:story, but I think we're talking
Speaker:about two characters who are so
Speaker:trauma bonded throughout the outcome
Speaker:of an actual war,
Speaker:and they're holding on to what
Speaker:each other represents for one
Speaker:another, which is in a sense, it's
Speaker:that time where things are easier.
Speaker:It's they represent their biggest
Speaker:dreams that were destroyed by
Speaker:reality, and it's the only thing
Speaker:they have left of that.
Speaker:That's how I think you can get there
Speaker:in your mind.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:That is that.
Speaker:I think that covers it.
Speaker:So like.
Speaker:Yeah, that was so perfect.
Speaker:Anything to add?
Speaker:We struck my mike.
Speaker:Not just.
Speaker:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker:No, I was really like,
Speaker:I think we talked the other day,
Speaker:like kind of prepping this episode
Speaker:and I hadn't yet finished the book
Speaker:and I had closed it and didn't
Speaker:realize it had been a week.
Speaker:And it was because I think I was
Speaker:really trying to grapple with this
Speaker:concept of like, how am I supposed
Speaker:to believe in this love?
Speaker:Because like, I don't know if I
Speaker:could still love someone
Speaker:who was so convicted
Speaker:to something else.
Speaker:And then I realized like, yes, you
Speaker:could, because that's actually
Speaker:not what it's about.
Speaker:It's about comfort and like,
Speaker:familiarity and safety and
Speaker:like everything else that they
Speaker:represent for one another prior to
Speaker:all this other shit happening.
Speaker:And how that
Speaker:bonds us so deeply is like human
Speaker:to human.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And I think I
Speaker:honestly believe that's part of the
Speaker:genius in the writing of this book,
Speaker:is that she pulled off that feat.
Speaker:And it's not because
Speaker:I kind of went in with the same
Speaker:thoughts of like, how how am I going
Speaker:to buy like it would be like.
Speaker:But she does spend so much time
Speaker:with them as children and
Speaker:their connection that when
Speaker:they get into the next parts of
Speaker:the book, you see how
Speaker:they are kind tied together.
Speaker:And you know, the empire is
Speaker:a very hard thing to write
Speaker:a character in, I think because
Speaker:the empire, when you're talking
Speaker:about monochromatic
Speaker:organizations, the empire
Speaker:is pure evil.
Speaker:Yeah. And so it's I think
Speaker:it's very hard to say, well, there
Speaker:were some good people there, but
Speaker:I think she.
Speaker:Yeah, Claudia Gray
Speaker:really threads that
Speaker:needle very well and
Speaker:makes you care for for both
Speaker:of them throughout.
Speaker:And I think it's very impressive.
Speaker:It is.
Speaker:Should we lighten it a little bit
Speaker:and talk about things that like
Speaker:feel that that fills out that aren't
Speaker:in the movie? Like maybe our most
Speaker:comedic moments or something?
Speaker:I'm specifically was specifically
Speaker:thinking of there's a really funny
Speaker:scene where Sienna
Speaker:is on the bridge and she's
Speaker:questioning and she's not alone.
Speaker:She's questioning.
Speaker:Why.
Speaker:They are looking for this one
Speaker:spacecraft. Why is the Millennium
Speaker:Falcon so important?
Speaker:Why can't they just obliterate it
Speaker:out of the sky?
Speaker:And like this general frustration
Speaker:that's echoed throughout the
Speaker:Imperial Fleet's staff
Speaker:at Darth Vader for making
Speaker:them jump through all these hoops
Speaker:and lose all these fighters
Speaker:and machinery and like resources
Speaker:to find this ship with no
Speaker:explanation.
Speaker:I was laughing out loud.
Speaker:That, yes, it's such a
Speaker:great moment.
Speaker:It's also kind of like
Speaker:all of the things that you think
Speaker:might have to occur off.
Speaker:It's very much happening.
Speaker:I also thought that was funny
Speaker:because, you know, as someone
Speaker:who works in corporate America.
Speaker:Exactly that that's
Speaker:how it feels to where you're like,
Speaker:what's the leadership doing
Speaker:right now?
Speaker:Like, what are we doing in
Speaker:this way? Yeah, exactly.
Speaker:Dedicating resources to this
Speaker:when we should be like, maybe
Speaker:just blowing them up and moving on.
Speaker:This so good.
Speaker:The joke is followed up because she
Speaker:disappears for a while and then she
Speaker:comes back to the bridge and someone
Speaker:else is now in charge.
Speaker:And he's like, you weren't here.
Speaker:I'm now captain.
Speaker:It's because.
Speaker:Yeah, the leader force spoke to
Speaker:this. Yeah.
Speaker:The folks in force choked Ozil
Speaker:out and it
Speaker:made a pit.
Speaker:Tippett I think.
Speaker:I think that's how you pronounce it.
Speaker:It's yeah.
Speaker:But my God, I was laughing.
Speaker:He was like, right.
Speaker:You weren't here.
Speaker:So you can refer.
Speaker:To me now as It was so good.
Speaker:Yeah. It's just I feel
Speaker:like Claudia Gray gets
Speaker:the song.
Speaker:It's really nice.
Speaker:She got. She.
Speaker:She really.
Speaker:God. Like, just not to make this.
Speaker:Well, let's do it. Let's make this
Speaker:just like a Claudia Gray
Speaker:appreciation episode.
Speaker:Like she.
Speaker:Made. She just.
Speaker:Yeah, she just captured it like
Speaker:the depth, the family,
Speaker:the, you know, the war,
Speaker:the grit like,
Speaker:but also the comedy that is Star
Speaker:Wars and and then
Speaker:all of that. And that's actually I
Speaker:feel like that's got to be really
Speaker:hard to do in book format
Speaker:and do it well.
Speaker:I agree. Yeah, I agree.
Speaker:Yeah. And she also has the
Speaker:action of Star Wars.
Speaker:Like, there were a lot of
Speaker:great action sequences
Speaker:that were thrilling,
Speaker:interesting new to
Speaker:me.
Speaker:And also was
Speaker:like, great springboards
Speaker:for the characters.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:There was truth that act especially
Speaker:because I was slipping back and
Speaker:forth from the reading, the physical
Speaker:book and listening to the audio.
Speaker:And I, by
Speaker:some fade of force of
Speaker:the force, I got to listen to
Speaker:some of the battle sequences versus
Speaker:reading them and
Speaker:my God. Yeah. Like it was so action
Speaker:packed for.
Speaker:For what? It yeah, it was really
Speaker:fun.
Speaker:I would recommend physically
Speaker:reading it and also listening to
Speaker:it. It's kind of two different
Speaker:experiences.
Speaker:I kind of had them at the same time.
Speaker:If this is a film, how do you want
Speaker:to see it made?
Speaker:Which, by the way, this is my
Speaker:official petition.
Speaker:To make this.
Speaker:A damn movie.
Speaker:How is this book?
Speaker:Ten years old and we don't have
Speaker:it. That's crazy.
Speaker:It's so good.
Speaker:Anyway, so.
Speaker:I asked you a question.
Speaker:No, it's so good.
Speaker:I would love to see it as a movie.
Speaker:I could see it as a series
Speaker:as well.
Speaker:But I feel like it
Speaker:could work better as, like, a longer
Speaker:movie. Like 2.5 hour.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It has to be real, though.
Speaker:It can't be animation, right?
Speaker:It can't be animate.
Speaker:Why not?
Speaker:Why not?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well, no, I mean, I feel
Speaker:like animation is not going to
Speaker:capture it completely.
Speaker:Like not capture the grittiness.
Speaker:And.
Speaker:The.
Speaker:Reality of that.
Speaker:The reality of it.
Speaker:Yeah, that's what it does so well,
Speaker:it may.
Speaker:It takes this
Speaker:fairy tale and
Speaker:grounded in a certain reality
Speaker:that.
Speaker:We have to have.
Speaker:To understand.
Speaker:Yeah, the characters have to be
Speaker:anthropomorphized a little bit
Speaker:more than at least I personally
Speaker:get through an animation I
Speaker:like. And this is no hate to any
Speaker:stars in animation because I think
Speaker:like I've, I've gotten more familiar
Speaker:with it. I've been watching it.
Speaker:I really I really appreciate it for
Speaker:the art, the medium, the
Speaker:skill it's taken to to make
Speaker:and and no hate in animation in
Speaker:general, but there's just some
Speaker:stories where it's like I actually
Speaker:I don't know if Rogue
Speaker:one would have translated the same
Speaker:if it hadn't been live action
Speaker:And this for this book
Speaker:feels very similar in
Speaker:terms of the emotional
Speaker:complexity, the price of war, what
Speaker:it has to represent in terms of like
Speaker:losses.
Speaker:You're so right.
Speaker:And you're so right.
Speaker:Like it should have been a journey
Speaker:away from Rogue One.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Right. Yes.
Speaker:Because it doesn't Trump's time in
Speaker:this in a very similar way.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I think I think you're yes,
Speaker:I agree with you because like,
Speaker:I always think like, it could be a
Speaker:cartoon.
Speaker:It could be animation.
Speaker:It could be
Speaker:live action.
Speaker:It could be a show.
Speaker:It could be movie.
Speaker:It could be shorts on YouTube.
Speaker:But I agree that I think a movie.
Speaker:If they're going to do this as a
Speaker:series.
Speaker:Sorry, I just cut you off.
Speaker:I did just interrupt you.
Speaker:Go on.
Speaker:No, no, no, no, no.
Speaker:The only thing I would say is
Speaker:I think they could make this a
Speaker:really good trilogy.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:And the trilogy mirrors
Speaker:the original trilogy.
Speaker:We are.
Speaker:Thinking with with.
Speaker:Very similarly.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:I was just going to say, if they're
Speaker:going to make it a series,
Speaker:I want an hour and 20
Speaker:minutes for each time.
Speaker:Jump.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Yes, I want an hour when they're
Speaker:kids.
Speaker:I want an hour of the academy.
Speaker:I want 90 minutes
Speaker:of the rest of it.
Speaker:And there's your movie?
Speaker:Yes. Yeah. Do it.
Speaker:Do it. Like, do it.
Speaker:Stranger Things Style.
Speaker:Well, yeah, that would be.
Speaker:That would be great.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I do think it's so important
Speaker:to understand
Speaker:the relationship
Speaker:between the two children.
Speaker:For you get into everything that
Speaker:you need to spend time with
Speaker:it. Yeah, I take it back.
Speaker:I don't I don't think it could be a
Speaker:great two hour movie.
Speaker:It could be a good one.
Speaker:But you'd be blowing through
Speaker:like that whole.
Speaker:The whole childhood would be the
Speaker:first ten pages.
Speaker:And that's not enough time.
Speaker:Now, would you believe that?
Speaker:Kind of. Yeah.
Speaker:Would you get to where we got?
Speaker:Which was like, that's why they love
Speaker:each other. If you only had ten
Speaker:pages.
Speaker:Probably not.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker:Yeah, probably.
Speaker:Not.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Did does this change your
Speaker:POV of the original trilogy at all?
Speaker:I'm a little bit of jakku.
Speaker:I don't think it changed my point of
Speaker:view so much as
Speaker:I just always love it when I
Speaker:get other points of view.
Speaker:It's one of the reasons why I love
Speaker:the Point of View series
Speaker:for the original.
Speaker:Yeah, like trilogies
Speaker:and I love
Speaker:like now I'm going to rewatch
Speaker:the Alderaan scene in a New
Speaker:Hope and a completely different
Speaker:perspective.
Speaker:Or now I'm going to watch, you know,
Speaker:Darth choked force choking
Speaker:out somebody and be like, God, who's
Speaker:got the battlefield promotion?
Speaker:And just adds like it just adds more
Speaker:depth.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yes. Yeah, I think that's exactly
Speaker:it. Yeah. Adds more depth.
Speaker:And and I think
Speaker:this one particularly added depth
Speaker:in a way that felt very real.
Speaker:So real.
Speaker:Yeah, it was.
Speaker:It was almost like taking a line
Speaker:drawing and then making it 3D.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah, That's.
Speaker:I've got, I've got a great button.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:So that's what Star Wars means to us
Speaker:this week.
Speaker:But what do you think?
Speaker:Did you read Lost Stars?
Speaker:Did you enjoy it?
Speaker:Are you a fan of Claudia Gray?
Speaker:Is there scenes that
Speaker:we missed or didn't talk about
Speaker:that are your favorite from this
Speaker:book? Yeah.
Speaker:Or what did we get wrong?
Speaker:Yes. Correct us if we.
Speaker:There's a.
Speaker:Litany. Yeah.
Speaker:Did we misquote or maybe we didn't
Speaker:draft something, you know, 100%
Speaker:let us know. Yeah.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:And you can do so
Speaker:on social anywhere
Speaker:at Star Wars means to you that's at
Speaker:Star Wars mean the number two in the
Speaker:letter you.
Speaker:And then next week we
Speaker:talked to Chelsea Zoo Koski.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:About more.
Speaker:Books. About books.
Speaker:And she's very fun.
Speaker:So until then, may the force be
Speaker:with you.
Speaker:And with you.
Speaker:Forever, kid.
Speaker:Here you go.
Speaker:My physical book.
Speaker:I.
Speaker:Laura. Let me see where.
Speaker:What was.
Speaker:That sound?
Speaker:You sounded like
Speaker:one of those creatures that
Speaker:they ride in.
Speaker:You mean that looks like tiny
Speaker:dinosaurs.
Speaker:On.
Speaker:The do backs?
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:I yeah,
Speaker:that was my.
Speaker:I'm done with the day
Speaker:noise.
Speaker:Sorry.
Speaker:Are you there?
Speaker:Yes, I am.
Speaker:My Internet is unstable because my
Speaker:engine has a jack.
Speaker:It's.
Speaker:Is it me?
Speaker:No, I think you're wrong.
Speaker:No, I think it's wrong.
Speaker:But I think.
Speaker:I think I'm the drama, okay?
Speaker:Because the message came up for me.
Speaker:Okay?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Internet unstable.
Speaker:But.
Speaker:The internet sucks my
Speaker:so hard.
Speaker:It is super pile of
Speaker:whoop.
Speaker:There's our outtake.
Speaker:Yeah, it's just going to be beep
Speaker:beep.
Speaker:I my God.
Speaker:I don't even know.
Speaker:Cut out again.
